Complex Effect and Cause Relations

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Cause and Effect Diagram (Fishbone Diagram) - Ishikawa
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Cause and Effect Diagram (Fishbone Diagram) - Ishikawa > Forum > Complex Effect and Cause Relations

Complex Effect and Cause Relations
Note that Effects and Causes of organizational problems are often interlinked as when a child does not study and the mother scolds him. But the child thinks: because my mother is scolding me every time I don't study.
So we can both say that the scolding occurs because of the child not studying but also that not studying is the effect of the scolding.

Complex Effect and Cause Relations
ISHIKAWA chart is a powerful tool. Although limited in complex situations. This tool, as all tools, is only a support in reasoning. The knowledge of advanced ideas, of situation, of context, experience of the participants remains the main trump to find the best solutions.

Effect is Just Reinforcing the Cause
I tend to disagree, there is 1 cause and (sometimes) many effects. I agree that sometimes the effect is reinforcing the cause, but it is in the time sequence that you will find the answer. If you can demonstrate that "scolding" reinforces the cause, you might simply have found a wrong solution to your problem...

Ishikawa Chart Shows (Reinforcing) Interactions
I agree with Gian. The Ishikawa chart can provide insight in how the effects may be reinforcing the potential cause. By analyzing the completed cause and effect chart, interactions and interlinkages become clear. The Ishikawa chart is a diagnozing tool which provides a start for correction, prevention and potential improvement.

Cause & Effect Determined by Observer
Who decides on the cause & effect, it can be an individual or group, it's like a doctor and a patient who at certain point reach a conclusion what was the cause that made the patient ill. So for simple reasons the observer(ownselves or a group of experts or people in general) is the one who indentifies the problems and then looks for the solution. I often use a fish bone diagram and it's me who identify both the cause and the effect.

Causes & Effects Influenced by Type of the Problem
H. Möller
Besides the observer, also the type / nature of the problem influences the (relation between) causes and effects.
For example take the question: Why did Object A hit Object B? This seems a simple problem with straightforward causes and effects. Indeed if A and B are both balls it actually is. And creating a Fishbone chart would be easy.
But if Object A is a hijacked airplane and Object B is the World Trade Center, then there can be a lot of debate on what caused what. The causes and effects are quite debatable and unpredictable. And as Deepak says, it would be impossible to create an Ishikawa Chart to which both the hijackers and the victims would agree.

Multiple Causes
I would be suspicious of a C/E diagram that only showed one cause. For instance, I finished one C/E map in which an operator under-charged a raw material which caused a reaction not to go to completion, AND the quality control department misinterpreted the reaction completion analysis results, AND ... There were four independent causes, either of which would have prevented the final negative impact. The sinking of the titanic is another example.

C & E Multiple Causes & User Determined Outcomes
Jim K
Multiple Causes are a given. Ford's 8D template actually requires a listing of the causes and estimated % contribution.
Be careful not to develop paralysis by analysis by applying 5 [or 55] 'whys' to each of the potential contributors to the effect.
Thus - a good facilitator can keep things on track, but as said earlier - the challenge is to ensure the C&E isn't a collaboration tool that 'dumbs down' the cause based on an inappropriate team formed to conduct the investigation - or a dominate yet inexperienced member.

Distinguish Technical and Psychological Effect and Cause Relations
Pradeep Deo
Psychological cause and effect relations can not be compared with technological cause and effect relations. Former involves emotions while later is purly scientific solution.

Interconnection of Various Causes
Ravi Vazirani
The C/E relationships of identifying the problem become irrelevant when the cause of the problem has interconnection of various causes and is the effect of the same.

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Cause and Effect Diagram (Fishbone Diagram) - Ishikawa
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